ZEN INTERVIEW

1. When/ why did you first become interested in Zen Buddhism?

Judith: Life with children can be a miraculous experience, but it can also be a roller coaster of highs and lows. For me, becoming a mother created a longing for a new perspective. This was the reason I became interested in Buddhism. I realized I had to slow down, because every day with my little ones I could feel life speeding up. In the chaos of toys, sibling arguments, nutrition and medical concerns, school issues and friendship woes it is very easy to lose perspective. I could feel myself speeding up to respond to the every-more frantic demands of each day, and feeling nothing but exhaustion.

So I've been studying and practicing the art of slowing down. That's the wisdom of Zen. When we do that it's easier to see the humor in the spills, the chills and the bills. Life becomes more fun when we are paying attention.

All of us are novices at Zen practice--it is a road not a point of arrival. Fortunately, I live with a Zen master so my training is rigorous and hourly! My husband, Jurgen Haver, is a true, unpretentious Zen teacher who teases our household into observing and enjoying life, without being trapped on a roller coaster. He's also trained CEOs in using Zen.

Jurgen: It was almost 50 years ago that I first encountered Zen and I've been trying to live the Zen way ever since. I'm a slow learner!

I had just gotten out of college and gone to New York to write the great American novel back then. Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg and others had been dubbed as spokesmen for the "beat generation." Many of them were influenced by Buddhist ideas.

In 1958, Kerouac published The Dharma Bums which is a story of how two young men enter a search for truth "the Zen way." At that point I began to take Zen seriously. It answered a question that had been plaguing me since high school-how is it that people can go for weeks at a time without actually being "alive"-without noticing anything? Even at 15 I knew that most of the time people are more like robots than aware human beings. Zen gave me a discipline for becoming present in my own life and I gulped it down like a someone who'd wandered around for months on a desert island looking for something besides salt water.

It wasn't until 1970 that I finally seemed to "get it." Shunryu Suzuki's book Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind brought everything together for me (that special book has been in print for over 30 years). Up until then I had been focusing on achieving satori (enlightenment). I was in my 30's and, after 12 years, had no idea whether I had become enlightened or not (still don't know).

But, Suzuki saved me. In the preface to his book he points out that while satori is not unimportant, it is not the part of Zen that needs to be stressed. The book goes on to explore what Suzuki calls beginner's mind-the ability to actually see, taste, hear, smell, and touch everything life brings to us as through experiencing it for the first time. It is this practice that finally brings us in touch with reality. Mindful attention allows us to live and respond to real life.

2. What gave you the idea of applying Zen to parenting?

Jurgen: Once you adopt Zen as a way of living, you simply apply it to everything. It no longer becomes a conscious act...it's just what you do.

Judith: For us, Zen is a lifestyle that is wonderfully suited to the experience of parenting.

When the children are upset about a bully, when their pet dies, when one has a toy the other child wants-all of the experiences of parenting can pull at our heartstrings and cause us to react based on the past or the future. We remember when we were bullied or lost a pet and we automatically impose our experience on the present. When we breathe and release the past, then we can let our children have their own experiences and solutions. What we are called to do as parents is to be present--paying attention and supporting our children without imposing our fears and expectations on them. That's Zen.

When the children are fighting we may tend to exaggerate-"They are always fighting." Again, practicing Zen makes a difference. After learning to direct the mind always to the present, we can respond to the current experience without generalizing. A Zen practice allows us to respond in ways that are appropriate for the moment.

3. What are the major principles of Zen?

Jurgen: When you ask this question you are striking at the heart of the thing that is the hardest to learn about Zen. Ken McLeod recently (2001) wrote a book titled Wake Up to Your Life. While McLeod speaks from a Tibetan Buddhist perspective, he has certainly nailed the single most important principle of Zen-to wake up and participate in our own lives.

The reason I say this is the hardest principle to learn is because it is so "pig simple" we're unwilling to believe it. We just know things have to be more complicated than that. The real problem here is that being aware of who we are, what we are doing, and what is going on around us is a discipline. It requires practice.

Zen has some other important principles. It is moral-do not kill, steal, lie, harm the body, etc. It also believes that meditation is primary (see Suzuki's Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind). Meditation is the discipline that helps us stay focused in the moment.

For me the fourth important principle is that of recognizing-life is not as it appears to be. We are always looking to "hold on" while life itself is always changing. A Zen way of grasping this is to imagine yourself standing beside a stream watching the water flow past day after day and then realizing it is never the same water that flows past. In other words it is an illusion that we can achieve permanence in any area of our lives. Hence, everything is always new (beginner's mind).

Not only that but no two things are ever alike. That goes back to my college freshman English class with S.I. Hayakawa's book Language in Thought and Action (in print since 1939) in which he points out that, in order to communicate, we create abstract categories-"cows" for instance. However, once we abstract we have stepped away from reality for, as Hayakawa reminds his readers, "cow one is not cow two." That phrase always stuck with and, along with Gertrude Stein's "a rose is a rose is a rose," probably fermented in my mind until I ran into Zen itself.

4. In your book, Zen Parenting, you talk about using the Zen practice of non-judgmental awareness" to cope with the day-to-day chaos of parenting. Can you explain this concept?

Jurgen: The answer to the previous question comes to play here. A child is always changing so, what that child did last week is never the same as what the child does today. Also, things are never what they appear to be and we must always be aware of that. It's too easy to become stagnated. It's one of the reasons teenagers complain that their parents are still treating them like they're two years old. It's true. We do fall into that trap. That's one facet of non-judgmental awareness.

Judith: We are surrounded by a lot of pressures coming from the media, from schools, from each other and from our families. And we internalize all of this and put pressure on ourselves to raise "perfect children" in perfect health, who never act inappropriately and who reflect to society our ability as "perfect parents." This leads to heavy judgements whenever perfection isn't achieved, which is, of course, all the time.

With practice we can learn to interrupt the judgements. For example, resenting a child because she spilled her juice doesn't get it cleaned up. The resentment creates tension and makes for yet another situation to resolve. When we can breathe to release any irritation and just observe-"juice needs to be cleaned up"-we move through the situation more quickly and with greater clarity. It is what it is. No judgement required. Life is a constant flow.

5. Why do you suggest that parents discover their own "inner wisdom" rather than relying solely on outside experts?

Jurgen: In looking over advice from the "experts" you'll find everything from "spare the rod and spoil the child" to a permissiveness so pervasive that the child runs the home while the parents bow to their every whim. So, which expert do you count on? It can be confusing and overwhelming. Further, none of these experts knows your child and we know that "child one is not child two."

So, while it is good to study what experts have to say and learn what we can from them, in the final analysis it is up to each parent to decide what's best. The Zen practice of awareness-be-here-nowness-gives us the clarity to trust our own inner knowledge. How often we say, "I knew that" or "I should have listened to myself." Well, that's what inner wisdom is all about...listening to that part of us that "knows."

Judith: For me, that "inner wisdom" is our connection to God-a transcendent reality. When we slow down and let go of all that would cloud our minds, we can unite with something greater and wiser. Answers then come in the form of intuition or ah-has.

6. Why do you suggest that parents follow Zen guidelines in raising their children? What are the benefits for parents who adopt this philosophy?

Jurgen: So they won't end up saying things like, "I wish I'd paid more attention. It seems as though I missed their whole childhood." The benefit follows-you will have participated in your child's life and will have memories a-plenty. And, you will have responded to their "real" needs more often than otherwise.

Judith: A Zen perspective is very freeing. It means not getting caught up in judgements or history or expectations. It's a perspective that is real and appropriate for responding to children since they are very much "in the moment."

7. What daily challenges do parents face that Zen Parenting can help with?

Judith: To wake up without expectations yet with an appreciation for the newness of the day. That is Zen. To answer a child's incessant questions without resentment. That is Zen. To respond to the challenges of the day by maintaining a sense of humor. That is Zen. To put the children to bed, allowing them to say what they need to say, valuing those moments of being together. That is Zen.

Our book includes stories about many specific situations that come up for parents. These are meant to be examples. Primarily the book is a guide for readers to learn to live Zen.

Jurgen: Zen applies to all of life.

8. What would be a "Zen" response to a child throwing a tantrum in public?

Jurgen: The very nature of Zen first warns us that it depends on the child and your relationship to the child. So, there is no pat answer. That's why we must trust our own inner wisdom. However, it should be noted that the first problem to be dealt with doesn't have to do with the child as much as it does our own embarrassment and frustration as we worry about what other adults are think of us as parents.

Judith: Yes, that's the first step. When a child throws a tantrum in public, we feel the eyes of others upon us. Our parenting ability is suddenly on public display and we appear to be incompetent since we have "allowed" this to happen. The Zen answer is to take a deep breath. That allows the emotions to subside. Then consciously let go of the self-incrimination. It doesn't matter who is watching or what they think. What matters is responding to the child here and now.

Once you get to this place, the appropriate response comes easier. It might mean leaving the store. It might mean distracting the child so they focus on something else. Don't forget to have a sense of humor. Try, "Johnny, that lady there is staring at me. Do I have buggers hanging out my nose or is it my face-does this look right?" Make a silly face. That usually changes the mood for our kids!

There isn't a "one-size-fits-all" answer. But when we tune in to ourselves and our connection with our children the appropriate response is easier to find.

9. How can Zen ideas help parents and children who are coping with divorce?

Judith: When I was going through a divorce, I had to keep bringing myself back from the fears of what would be next. The mind tends to run ahead imagining the future-"I'm a single parent now. It will be like it was for Sally. I'll be financially devastated. My children will hate me for this. My ex will do this or that..." All of those kinds of anticipatory thoughts get in the way of doing what needs to be done. We project, fantasize and are fearful-caught in the future and the past. Meanwhile, the children dream about returning to the days when they had an intact family-no matter how troubled it was.

Zen reminds us to let go. The present is all there is and there is plenty to enjoy right here, right now-even if it is simply a sunny day or a hug from a child. Let go of the past. Let go of the future. Take life one day at a time.

When things seem really difficult-when troubles seem overwhelming-it is good to remember that life is always changing...this too shall pass. If we let ourselves go with the flow, the river is less likely to drown us. It is when we fight to go upstream that we become engulfed. When we stop the struggle and pay attention, the little miracles of every day can help us through the hard times.

And children learn from us. All it takes is one stable adult, who can model a practice of letting go, to help a child learn to appreciate life as it is here today without wishing it were different. Life is what it is.

10. How should interested parents get started?

Jurgen: As we talked about earlier. The primary disciple is to keep bringing ourselves back to awareness of what's happening right now. To leave the past behind and forget about what we might do in the future so that we can experience our child right now...in this very moment.

Judith: Our book offers lots of exercises in mediation, reflection and creativity that can give parents a sense of how to practice being a Zen Parent. Here are some additional concrete steps for applying what we are talking about here:

1) Take some time every day to be quiet. Still the mind. Let thoughts pass. Imagine an empty box. Focus totally on the emptiness.

2) Whenever you feel stressed, breathe deeply. For just a minute give your total attention to breathing. This will help you release the feelings.

3) Notice how young children live in the moment. One minute they are upset and crying, and the next minute they are laughing. Try to be more like this.

4) Spend time everyday outdoors. Notice everything, focus on little details. The color of grass, the way people walk down the street. The birds singing. The ants on the sidewalk. Nature, even in the middle of the city, reminds us that life is in constant flux. All we have is this moment and it is wonderful.

5) Laugh a lot. Life is really funny if you look at it without expectations. And it is too short not to be enjoyed. If you follow these basic guidelines, you will be on your way to becoming a Zen Parent.

11. Where can parents find more information on Zen Parenting?

Jurgen: The books mentioned in this interview along with those in the bibliography of our book offer a starting point. Beyond that, most books on Zen offer help in adopting a Zen attitude toward all of life. But, when it comes to applying Zen to the challenging job of parenting...there's only one book-Zen Parenting.

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